Reading group on the writings of 毛澤東 Mao Tse Tung

[some reading militants reading militant writing]

Monday, March 13, 2006

A few more mistaken ideas

Hey y'all,

In my response I focus on disagreements, but I like the piece quite a bit. I'd really like to know more of the historical context. The piece or the intro mentions the Red Army, formed August 1927 during the Nanchang uprising. I've searched a bit (not a lot, I confess) and haven't found much on this. It also mentions a Communist Party organization within the Red Army, presumably then the Army itself was not a Communist organization, at least not in origin or in direction initially. That's all really interesting. Any advice on short stuff to read, preferably online? Maybe this blog could start linking to occasional relevant pieces of historical background? I'd find that useful, but I don't think I have enough bearings yet to really contribute to the collection of that sort of material. After I had more of a starting grasp on the history I could be more helpful along those lines. In any case, onto the article, so y'all can correct me ...

I don't find the causal connection between mistaken ideas and class background compelling. Given that people can be convinced out of their ideas by the Party's leading bodies and be educated into the correct line, clearly class does not determine consciousness. Perhaps this is more of a historical (rather than historical materialist?) point, though - along the lines of 'generally, it is the case that many people from X background hold Y ideas, and it is likely that many of them who come into our organization will have done so without having changed those ideas change.' This would be something like Mao's diagnosis of a 'low political level' existing empirically w/in the ranks. If that's the case, then no objection from me. I just don't see any worthwhile use to (nor do I believe in) the appeal to origins, especially in any kind of strong sense.

I like the piece about workers and peasants with experience in struggle taking on leadership roles in the Red Army.

I don't like the 'petty bourgeois individualistic aversion to discipline' thing in the criticism of ultra-democracy. That's just an ad hominem. I'm not I would agree with Mao about the correct balance of democracy and class struggle, nor am I convinced at the ability of the higher bodies to make objective decisions, at a minimum there's an epistemological problem here that is immediately political: who determines what objectivity is in this context? And if the lower bodies and the masses aren't qualified to judge the objectivity of the higher bodies - because presumably without access to objectivity one can not judge whether or not someone else has access to an objective perspective and is acting correctly based on that objective perspective - then genuinely revolutionary decisions based on objective bases and self-interested decisions based on a sectorial interest must look the same from the lower perspective. If someone below objects to an objective decision wrongly or to a self-interested decision rightly, in both cases the response will be "you are not fit to judge" presumably with the balance of ideological and organizational power tipped in favor of the higher bodies. I have a hard time distinguishing this from 'shut up and obey.' I'm also curious how this relates to the 'minority should agree to go along with the majority decision' line. If there was some situation wherein the majority/minority distribution was such that the minority was the leadership (the higher bodies) and the minority was everyone else presumably Mao would not agree that the minority should go along with the majority.

This is great: "Inner-Party criticism is a weapon for strengthening the Party organization and increasing its fighting capacity. In the Party organization of the Red Army, however, criticism is not always of this character, and sometimes turns into personal attack. As a result, it damages the Party organization as well as individuals. (...) The method of correction is to help Party members understand that the purpose of criticism is to increase the Party's fighting capacity in order to achieve victory in the class struggle and that it should not be used as a means of personal attack."

Many other Marxists could learn from this. But there's still a problem with regard to what is and is not a personal attack. Mao says that personal criticism is "a manifestation of petty-bourgeois individualism," which strikes me as at least potentially itself a personal attack, depending on its use in context. Particularly given that "the main task of criticism is to point out political and organizational mistakes," what difference does the appeal to origins make? To my mind that difference is a political one not aimed at educating the comrade involved but rather at politically isolating them. I'm willing to concede that some situations may well require that type of activity, but this is not criticism, it's political intrigue and machination, and the difference should be one we're aware of (though, of course, political machination that admits that that's what it is will be unlikely to succeed).

"Absolute equalitarianism, like ultra-democracy in political matters, is the product of a handicraft and small peasant economy--the only difference being that the one manifests itself in material affairs, while the other manifests itself in political affairs." Again with this stuff... what's the deal with this?

I think this is a pretty good criticism of socialism: "under socialism (...) things will then be distributed on the principle of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his work"" in that socialism retains the pegging of means of subsistence to labor, which is essentially value production, and given that there must still be a coordinating body (class) like the Party who will also need to be supported, there will still be surplus value extraction. I am, of course, all for the redistributive aspects of socialism - I would happily emigrate to a country with a more intact welfare state etc - but this is still a form of capitalism.

This is great: "Some people want to increase our political influence only by means of roving guerrilla actions, but are unwilling to increase it by undertaking the arduous task of building up base areas and establishing the people's political power."

I don't know enough of the history to actually back this claim up if push came to shove regarding specific past example, but I think this could apply to many cases of armed struggle of the clandestine variety - the Red Brigades, the Weathermen, etc - and of the occasional fetishizing of this kind of activity in some lefty circles in North America (often expressed in terms of wishing some 'real' action would take place). Also, in a different context, "roving guerilla" could be replaced with "PR-related" and it would describe a lot of other activity that takes place, including some bigger union campaigns, activity which doesn't know how to or isn't interested in building rank and file power.


Along the same lines, "some people follow the line of "hiring men and buying horses" and "recruiting deserters and accepting mutineers"," which the footnote describes as follows:

"In the application of these methods, attention was paid to numbers rather than to quality, and people of all sorts were indiscriminately recruited to swell the ranks."

I think this is pretty important, in the sense that organization must be deliberate, and must assess based on both quantity and quality. It is the case that more is more, but more of what? More people holding membership cards? What's that really mean? I've seen this in some of the nonprofit places I've worked, where the idea is just to get people to call themselves members, with little attention paid to the capacities of members either in terms of targeted recruitment based on organizational/campaign needs (a la "Draw active workers and peasants experienced in struggle into the ranks of the Red Army so as to change its composition") or in terms of member education.

I think the emphasis on education, especially internal education, is one of the main virtues of this piece, and while I disagree on several respects (disagreements I've already voiced), clearly Mao had success around his goals which suggests that his emphasis on education is something to emulate organizationally, even though I differ on some of the contents and the organizational forms. I also really like that education isn't simply 'produce correct ideas' a la the vulgar "we need to have a line on X issue" of sectarian groups, but includes an organizational infrastructure and practice - meeting procedures and the like, techniques. That's super important and is in some respects much more materialist (not that the name matters all that much, more important is that it's much more effective).

Over and out.

17 Comments:

  • At 12:07 PM, Blogger Himself said…

    Nate:

    some fragmentary comments:

    "Given that people can be convinced out of their ideas by the Party's leading bodies and be educated into the correct line, clearly class does not determine consciousness."

    That doesn't make sense - the party has a different class composition to the masses, viz. with original composition by urbanites.

    Now, the point about the impossibility of telling sectional interest from objective decision-making from below is a great one. The thing is that this can cut either way: it can mean an unfortunate blind faith in party decisions, or an unfortunate scepticism. But in fact what this does is impute good judgment ultimately to the masses: over time it's not actually going to be that hard to work out whether one is well led. And if the party isn't leading in ways people want to go, they're not going to garner much of a following. Of course, once the party is established in power, then this logic is no longer operative and then they can really start abusing power, as has historically been the case (Mao, I think, has a suggested to solution to this that we'll presumably get to in due course).

    I disagree with your interpretation of "to each according to their work." The harvesting of a surplus is of course necessary to provide welfare for people whose work is insufficient to support them - anything else would be nightmarish. But welfare recipients are not a ruling class. There is no implication that the bureaucracy will form a new capitalist class, and this of course should be fought against as capitalist restoration.

    It occurs to me that the question of numbers is this: that you obviously shouldn't be recruiting any old rabble, but on the other hand, if you aren't growing, what are you doing? Having observed Trot groups over many years, they either seem to be incapable of growing, or to grow unsustainably and implode/explode. That's no way to run a revolution.

     
  • At 10:56 PM, Blogger Nate said…

    hi Mark,

    Agreed re: numbers. If we're not growing we're stagnating, full stop. But we want the growth we need. I suspect we're completely of the same mind on this.

    I'm not as averse to the "each according to work" thing I as I sound (rather, I'm much more willing to settle than I sound: at this point a humane capitalism - something like socialism - sounds great to me). That said, I do think it's an important point in the sense that there is essentially still commodified labor power under a system with the "according to work" logic. May be a more humane version thereof, which like I said I'm all for, but still a version.

    Welfare recipients are certainly not a ruling class, it was never my point that they were. Ruling class is 'who rules,' just as 'profiting class' is 'who profits' and accumulates profit. Accumulation's the issue. Welfare recipients get by, and get by better under socialism. They don't accrue growing social power as a result of their position (nor, for that matter, do cops and union busting lawyers, though they perform important services for keeping the ball rolling and are rewarded for it). Capitalists do. Certainly some bureaucracies do (and are, to my mind, capitalists).

    As for class background and ideas... I don't get what Mao's doing with this stuff. It seems like the old fashioned marxist perspective on this stuff, and as such I don't think it makes sense. We'd probably be able to hash this out better with a text that addresses it more directly (like a chunk of History And Class Consciousness, for instance).

    What do you make of that stuff here - the link of ideas to class background? Can you explain to me how it's supposed to work? (This is not a rhetorical question.)

    Best,
    Nate

     
  • At 10:59 PM, Blogger Nate said…

    Damn, I wasn't done. One other thing - I'm with you re: the scepticism vs blind faith. I'm all for the latter when there are organizational mechanisms built in to provide recourse for those who discover unpleasantly that their faith was misplaced. (We must trust our comrades, trust is built into the term I think.) But I'm all for the former when those mechanisms don't exist.

     
  • At 12:37 PM, Blogger celticfire said…

    Wow! Damn interesting post.

     
  • At 12:40 PM, Blogger celticfire said…

    so how do I get involed with this?

     
  • At 3:44 PM, Blogger Himself said…

    cf: yeah, this is cozy little reading group that happens to be happening online because we're in different physical locations. I don't know whether there'd be general receptiveness to having someone else on board, but I'll ask around by email!

     
  • At 3:55 PM, Blogger Himself said…

    Nate:

    I still think we need to sort out this 'to each according to his work' thing, which was advocated by Marx. It's not communism, but I can't see how the hell you get that it is capitalism. In order to pay people according to the work they do, you can't possibly be paying people extra for being higher in the hierarchy: it's an active application of economic justice that presupposes the political control of the proletariat.

     
  • At 9:09 PM, Blogger Nate said…

    Mark,
    Sounds good. This, like the consciousness/ideas thing and class origin is another thing that'd likely be best served by a reading more directly on topic (in this case prob'ly Uncle Karl himself to start). Perhaps another reading group? Or something we could try to write a bit about at our respective blogs?

    For now, here's the best I can do.
    "Each according to work" still implies the following:
    1. access to goods predicated upon the performance of work
    2. someone to limit said access
    3. someone to arbitrate what is and is not work, and how it's to be measured.

    All of these are tremendously problematic, but don't mean it's capitalism. (And, to reiterate again, I'd still be for this order over the present, just like I'd rather a center left US president over the current debacle.) In my mind the above would likely require a monopoly on the decisions in 2 and 3. It could be something else a la, "we all agree that..." or some system of rotating positions as judge and as guard, but I imagine that would quickly break down without an organizing center (if my kid or good friend didn't work I'd be more likely to cut them some slack in my rotation as decision maker over who gets how much or as guard at the food depot). That organizing center would look a lot like a state and/or capitalist - powers of legitimate violence and/or power to exclude people from access to means of subsistence - and there's a question as to whether or not it would work and deserve its share. (The capitalists and politicians do expend their time and think they're working. They're wrong in at least one important sense, in that our labor supports them.) I see this as a surplus value extraction. The most important part for me, though, is the peg of eating to working. (I'd be much more okay with a certain baseline guaranteed, above which the 'each according to work' principle would operate.)

    In many respects what I'm saying can be seen in the old phrase that used to get used a lot of 'withering away' under socialism - that which withers away is initially and for some indeterminate duration still present.

    My thinking on this has been shaped a lot by Harry Cleaver. Here's a bit of his stuff, if you're interested:

    This is a response to someone else. Start at " Under socialism, workers will no longer be alienated (...)"
    http://libcom.org/library/response-sergio-fiedler-attack-autonomous-marxism-cleaver?PHPSESSID=f549cd0198c6de08f0234adeb5b1a7a0

    Piece he wrote on socialism
    http://www.eco.utexas.edu/facstaff/Cleaver/socialismessay.html

    After a bit more looking, though, this is probably the best source, it's the Critique of the Gotha Programme, here:

    http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm

    The relevant passage is from the paragraph that starts "What we have to deal with here ..." down to the paragraph that starts "In a higher phase of communist society ...". As I read it, Marx identifies the princple of "according to work" as holdover from capitalism and a retention (sp?) of bourgeois right. For Marx, this may be unavoidable. Maybe he's right. I've got less faith than I think he did that transition will proceed from that point into full communism, I think it could just as well stay there or go back, precisely via the elements that stage has in common with capitalism (or, as I'd put it, that stage's capitalist traits).

    Housekeeping question: I'm neurotic about decorum. With these longer issues that are not directly addressing the text at hand, is everyone okay with the discussion happening here or should we take them back to our respective own blogs? I'm fine with doing it this way, I just don't want be the roommate who monopolizes the shared space or whatever.

    best,
    Nate

     
  • At 2:23 PM, Blogger V said…

    I must recommend you to read 'Red Star over China' by Edger Snow (Written in 1936). It's the most vivid account of the operations of Communist Party of China and Red Army in the 'Soviet China' during the Chinese Revolutionary struggles...

    Comrade, it's a 'MUST READ'...

    In Solidarity,
    Vidrohi

     
  • At 9:53 PM, Blogger Zero said…

    I've been checking out the reading group and I really like this. I would very much like to get involved in the next discussion.

     
  • At 12:40 AM, Blogger Nate said…

    hey all,
    Does anyone (and this is also addressed to commenters) have suggestions for what to read next? I'm keen to continue on themes of organizational form and/or forms of research (peasant investigation), but am happy with whatever. Please, chime in. I don't know Mao's work at all to where I feel I can suggest something. If nothing crops up soon, though, I'll just browse the archive and start making suggestions based on title and length (can't do super long works at the moment).
    Best wishes,
    Nate

     
  • At 8:01 PM, Blogger Zero said…

    I know I'm new around here, but all the same, I would be into studying "Some Questions Concerning Methods of Leadership"

     
  • At 12:27 AM, Blogger celticfire said…

    I think the short but important "On Democratic Centralism". Its available online, though not very well here.

     
  • At 12:30 AM, Blogger celticfire said…

    Oops...isn't ""Some Questions Concerning Methods of Leadership" the same as "On DC"?

     
  • At 3:15 PM, Blogger Zero said…

    No its not the same. But given our discussion of parties and democracy over at my site I'd be more inclined to discuss this document that you are proposing.

     
  • At 4:52 PM, Blogger Nate said…

    Celt, Cde Zero,
    Sorry for not replying sooner. I've been out of town and am now sick again. The piece in question sounds great, as does the other piece that Comrade Zero suggests. Celt, can you do a post with a link to the article, to make it official? Thanks much.
    Best wishes,
    Nate

     
  • At 8:53 PM, Blogger David Biddlecombe said…

    If you're looking for something to read next, maybe you could read out the names of the 30 million plus people here in China who died as a direct result of Mao's policies. It will take some time but it might help to put your discussion into some perspective.

     

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